Reaching for the Invisible God

Yancy speaks of our growth as maturation from child to adult to parent.
within being an adult, he talks about training...
"For twenty years I have run, biked, or done other aerobic conditioning at least three times a week. I do so not because someone forces me, and surely not because it feels good - it seldom does - but rather because of what it allows me to enjoy. I can climb mountains and ski the Rockies without gasping for breath or pulling muscles. That is the reward for physical discipline."

Obviously, he leads then into a need for spiritual discipline and the analogies to running a race that Paul describes in the New Testament.

Do you have spiritual discipline so that you can enjoy the fruits of that effort? Do you pray, read the bible, go to church, small group, etc? Do you do these things regularly?

I know my exercise routine over the last several years has been really poor. And that I stop and start and stop and start and then do it again. Each time I start...it is a bear to get going. It is always easy to quit. But, I haven't been sticking it out long enough to reap the rewards...I haven't established a discipline in my routine so that I will continue and I haven't done it long enough to see the rewards that will show up elsewhere.

Likewise with bible reading, prayer or anything else...start and stop and you will not see the benefits that you will once you have established discipline in your walk.

Reaching for the Invisible God

Jesus is the Rosetta stone of God...I love this thought.

Indulge me with a somewhat lengthy passage...

"I cannot learn from Jesus why bad things occur-why an avalanche or flood decimates one town and not its neighbor, why leukemia strikes one child and not another-but I can surely learn how God feels about such tragedies. I simply look at how Jesus responds to the sisters of his good friend Lazarus, to a widow who has just lost her son, or a leprosy victim banned outside the town gates. Jesus gives God a face, and that face is streaked with tears.
In a fine analogy, H.Richard Niebuhr likened the revelation of God in Christ to the Rosetta stone. Before its discovery Egyptologists could only guess at the meaning of hieroglyphics. One unforgettable day they uncovered a dark stone that rendered the same text in Greek, ordinary Egyptian script, and previously undecipherable hieroglyphics. By comparing the translations side by side, they mastered hieroglyphics and could now see clearly into a world they had known only in a fog. Niebuhr goes on to say that Jesus allows us to "reconstruct out faith" We can trust God because we can trust Jesus If we doubt God, or find him incomprehensible, unknowable, the very best cure is to gaze steadily at Jesus, the Rosetta stone of faith."

Good advice....gaze steadily at Jesus. That always changes my perspective too.

Reaching for the Invisible God

"Love tend to decrease as power increases...The same power that repeatedly overwhelmed the Israelites made it difficult for them to perceive God's love."

Does that stop you in your tracks as a parent? As a boss? Does it resonate at all?
I certainly see some truth to that statement. I know that if I stand over my kids that they have to look WAY up to see me and that I am WAY bigger than they are. I intimidate them from that stance. Are they really seeing my love at that point?

I also pull back though and think of this from a different perspective that tells me that God knew that the Israelites would have this difficulty. And yet He still chose to engage them in this manner.
1. It is effective. How many times directly after God showing himself, His wrath, etc do the Israelites repent and turn towards God?
2. God needed to show us all of His character...the tough side and the loving side

Think about it...just like with two parents at home, kids know that one is easier than the other and gravitate towards the easy one to get out of the punishment. If the parents are not united in their efforts, the kids will divide and conquer.
If God just showed us forgiveness through Jesus Christ without the just anger and the consequences that are exhibited in the Old Testament would it mean as much? Or would we take it for granted? We really need to see both sides to understand and God was gracious enough to give us both views in His Word.

Reaching for the Invisible God

Yancey has a quote from Ron Hansen in this book...
"God gives us just enough to seek him, and never enough to fully find him. To do more would inhibit our freedom, and our freedom is very dear to God."

What do you think of that quote?

I get the freedom part and I completely agree that freedom is a dear privalege that God bestows on us. Without free will / freedom, there is no real love.
And I understand that there is an element of faith to our relationship with God, thus the "never enough to fully find him" thing as well...
however...the part about "giving us just enough to seek him" WITH "and never enough to fully find him" strikes me as too "gamey". Like we are in a cosmic game of hide and seek. It's probably just me being too tired but that was the thought that just came to me anyway.

I don't think God plays hide and seek and really think that our sinful nature makes us turn away from what is fully apparent. It might not be God standing in a white robe with his foot resting across the entire breadth of the US just to make sure we realize He is there...cause I do think God wants us to seek Him...but, I don't think that he is cloaking Himself to us.

Wait you will say, you are being foolish cause God is invisible, so of course He is hiding himself. However, I would just as easily give you this example.

I had a college roommate that was a morning person and did crew. He would be up at a silly hour in the morning and go to bed very early. He had the top bunk, so I couldn't always see if he was in his bed or not. There could be weeks or more where we would not see each other at all, however, that never changed my belief that he existed. There was order to his stuff. There were changes that came about in the room and other signs that told me he had been around, even if I didn't physically see him. He wasn't hiding, I just didn't see him.

That is how I think of my ability to see God. I may not physically see Him, but I have no doubt that He is around.

Reaching for the Invisible God

'"I have many successful relationships with other people. I can see them, touch them, hear them. But when I try to relate to an invisible God, nothing happens. I never have that sense that God is even there" I do not discount such an objection, because at times in my life I have wondered the same thing. Even now, my relationship with God rests or falls on faith...'
He then goes on to draw the analogy of our relationship to God as that of man to a dog, also saying that it is kind to humans in comparison.

While I understand the reason he says that...after all an infinite and all-powerful God versus us, tells us that it is a somewhat kind analogy, however, isn't it awfully detrimental as well to us since He says we are made in His image?

Anyway, based on these comments, does it make you think that a close, personal relationship with God is possible in the same way as with a person?
Since He is invisible and doesn't relate to us in the same way...?

I certainly know that a relationship with God is different...it is with God and even if he was right in front of me physically, it would be different. However, it does raise interesting questions on how we engage with God and how we know that we are knowing God better, getting closer to Him and so forth...

How do you gauge your relationship with God?

Reaching for the Invisible God

Section 1 - Thirst: Our Longing for God
This was a quote Phil received from a friend when asked how a seeking person could understand that a Christian life was different than a moral one...this from a national radio host well known in Christian circles...
"I have no trouble believing God is good. My question is more, What good is he? I heard awhile back that Billy Graham's daughter was undergoing marriage problems, so the Grahams and the in-laws flew back to Europe to meet with them and pray for the couple. They ended up getting divorced anyway. If Billy Graham's prayers don't get answered, what's the use of my praying? I look at my life - the health problems, my own daughter's struggles, my marriage. I cry out for God to help, and it's hard to know just how he answers. Really, what can we count on God for?"

That is a pretty strong statement from a Christian...but hits a point that I think many of us understand. Prayer is difficult and seems worthless sometimes. Do we even know if our prayers are ever answered?
My thought, right or wrong, is that prayer is more about us wanting to communicate with God...about us setting aside time to engage with him on the things going on in our lives than about tallying the requests and the answers that we can discern. To be honest, I may never know that God answered a single prayer, and even if he didn't would that be a reason to not pray? If the reality of life is that we only have vision to the smallest areas of God's plan, what would make me think that he didn't answer it, just not in a way that I would ever recognize? More so, in the process of my prayers, I see myself changing and that, in and of itself, could be the very reason for prayer or the answer to my prayers...

Reaching for the Invisible God - 1

There was a ton of interesting stuff in this book...so, I figured I will take one or two things from each section in order to help me remember and maybe it will whet some other people's appetites.
Section 1 - Thirst: Our Longing for God
Phil's discussion group each wrote an open letter to God that they then shared with the group. Phil's letter began with "Do I act as if you are alive?" and then later came to a conclusion that included "I find it easier to believe in the impossible - to believe in the parting of the Red Sea...than to believe in what should seem more possible: the slow, steady dawning of your life in people like me..."
His group was taken aback because they were surprised at the content of the letter...at how it portrayed his relationship with God and perhaps the lack of closeness that it exhibited.
In fact, Phil calls himself "septic with doubt" and yet he a well known Christian author. Perhaps one of the reasons why is that he is honest enough to write about and work through the feelings he has that include doubt and the distance he feels from God at times?
My first thought on this passage is that if anyone has been in relationship with ANYONE, let alone God, and has not gone through periods where that relationship has had ebbs and flows, times of closeness and periods where it seemed that you weren't connecting, then you haven't really been in much of a relationship. Why would a relationship with God be any different...especially since we are the same in a relationship with Him as we are with anyone else.
The other thing that struck me about this passage is how often we let others dictate how we feel about where we are in our walk. Unless you have a TON of confidence, a comment like that from a group member could totally take you down and cause insecurity in your relationship with God..."Why is it that I don't feel like they feel?" "I thought I was a mature Christian, but maybe not...after all, why would God not be speaking to me now?" And on and on it could go....are you letting others dictate how you feel about your relationship with God?

What I am reading

Travel always gives me time to read. This last trip, with all the layovers and time at the airport and on the plane, I definately made some progress on the books I am reading. I started and finished Chosen by Ted Dekker. Another awesome book from him as he starts a new trilogy that works within the world he created in the other trilogy.
I also began and finished a book by Phillip Yancey that was pretty awesome called Reaching for the Invisible God. I really enjoyed this one and will probably post several comments and thoughts on things he said over the next several days. It was a good read in that I had to stop and think about things and process them...I couldn't just fly through it like a novel.